Revising on elaborativity/autonomy/collaborativity/practicality

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    • Published: 07-28-2014 07:11 am
      Updated: 07-28-2014 07:18 am
    • These are my suggested changes to the dichotomies I've presented on helen fishers four types.

      3.3. The personality types
      3.3.1. AOP-CDEs: The Builders
      Builders are primarily driven by Endorphines. Endorphines are a key component in managing stress, negative emotions and pain. Endorphines help us remain strong in situations where we are experiencing negative emotions, allowing us to keep on a set direction, hoping it will cause the problem to resolve. CDE is used to set up tasks and execute routines, and correctly being able to follow through on routines will trigger the release of endorphines. Failing to accurately finish routines and tasks, will trigger endorphine levels to drop, causing us to experience stress, pain and negative emotions. High saliency AOPs and Low-saliency CDEs share a secondary tendency towards being Directors. Low saliency AOPs and High-saliency CDEs share a secondary tendency towards being Negotiators.
      3.3.2. ADP-COEs: The Negotiators
      ADP-COEs are primarily driven by oxytocin, a key component in questions of trust, reliability, and understanding other humans and their behavior. Oxytocin manages questions of self-esteem and high oxytocin helps us see the good in other people, relaxing our guard, allowing us to share more openly with others. COE helps us set up and manage expectations and rules that help us find those that are worthy of our trust, and those that aren't. Feeling betrayed will cause oxytocin levels to drop, causing us to be less reliant on others, freezing them out of the group or helpful information. High saliency ADPs and Low-saliency COEs share a secondary tendency towards being Explorers.Low saliency ADPs and High-saliency COEs share a secondary tendency towards being Builders.
      3.3.3. ADE-COPs: The Directors
      Directors are primarily driven by Serotonin. Serotonin manages responses of dealing with obstacles, setting up obstacles, rules, and boundaries. Boundaries help us know when it is safe to eat, to move, and engage others. ADE monitors group hierarchies, structures and organization in a group or environment, and following through on and succeeding to live up to a set up agenda, triggers a rush of serotonin, causing us to claim reward, authority and status in the group/environment. Failing to measure up to the criterias and hierarchies within the group, cause us to experience drops of serotonin, making us feel considerably less able, and causing us to pull away from the group or revise our strategies. High saliency ADEs and low-saliency COPs share a secondary tendency towards being Explorers. Low saliency ADEs and high-saliency COPs share a secondary tendency towards being Builders.

      3.3.4. AOE-CDPs: The Explorers
      Explorers are primarily driven by dopamine, a key chemical component when it comes to managing motivation, helping us make plans, engage in dreams, and a key chemical when engaging in new experiences. We experience a rush of dopamine when we are feeling free to move, engage, and exceed boundaries. We can struggle with dopamine-starvation when feeling locked in, unable to move, or when experiencing fear. AOE-COPs primarily regulate dopamine by changing and dealing with the perspective that the world is understood through, and an AOE-CDP type will change perspective from moment to moment, helping them set up new motivations and new goals. Healthy perspectives that accurately correspond to the reality we face, are rewarded by a rush of dopamine, and perspectives that only negatively respond to reality, can lead to dopamine-starvation. High saliency AOEs and low saliency CDPs share a secondary tendency towards being directors. Low saliency AOEs and high-saliency CDPs share a secondary tendency towards being negotiators.
    • Christian likes this post.
    • Published: 07-28-2014 07:20 am

    • This is the hyphothis I use when suggesting that AOE-LAs are secondarily driven by oxytocin, primarily by dopamine. Make a similar map for AOE-HAs and you'll find HAs are primarily driven by dopamine, but secondarily driven by serotonin. In that sense AOE-Las and ADP-Has are pretty similar, just ADP-HAs are primarily driven by oxytocin (elaborativity), 2nd by dopamine (autonomy), and AOE-LAs by dopamine (autonomy), and 2nd by oxytocin (elaborativity)
    • Published: 07-28-2014 07:25 am
    • And this is the map for AOP-HAs. Primarily driven by Endorphines (Collaborative) and secondarily by Serotonin (Practical). For AOP-LAs the primary driving chemical is still endorphines, but the secondary is oxytocin, causing AOP-LAs to be more elaborative than their HA siblings. In that sense, AOP-HAs (Endorphines, serotonine) are sociologically similar to ADE-LAs (Serotonine, endorphines)
    • Published: 07-28-2014 06:10 pm
    • This is great. It looks good to me. It makes sense on a semantical level, I'm not sure the neurochemicals are correctely aligned with the types though. Have too little knowledge of the chemicals so far.

      The question is what 'driven by' means on a cognitive level. Execution should be high dopamine for all types and Processing should be low dopamine for all types. So Executors should prefer a neurochemical state of high dopamine flowing in the prefrontal cortex. Using dominant stimulus-driven attention should lower dopamine and this causes stress for Executors after prolonged period. Using dominant goal-directed attention should increase dopamine and this causes stress for Processors after prolonged period.

      I think 'driven by' is to been seen as an optimal state. Like a type is 'driven by' = A type has a natural state of. Just some more thoughts.
    • ErikThor likes this post.
    • Published: 07-29-2014 05:41 am
    • How would this solve our problem?

      Low saliency plays a role in the production of neurochemicals. High saliency plays a role in the consumption of neurochemicals. Processing indicates the use/experience of the chemicals isn't being regulated. Execution indicates the use/experience of chemicals is being regulated by the brain, causing more instability and neglect, storage building of dopamine, causing higher levels of dopamine, withholding the use of the chemicals.

      That would mean an ADP-Ha would be more sensitive to the effects of oxytocin than the other chemicals, and oxytocin would have an overall positive effect on their brain, but their experience of the chemical would be free-flow (unregulated) and high-consumption, causing high, unrestrained elaborativity and trust, where a COE-La would on the other hand show a regulated, personalized experience of trust, making them more restrained and controlled in who they trust, who they form relations with, etc, etc, improving group loyalty within group, but reducing trust of people outside, but they would be oxytocin-producers, so they'd spread and improve trust within the community, make people feel safe.

      An ADE-La would produce high amounts of Serotonine, which would play a big role in the structure and control of the group, and use it in a regulated fashion. An ADE-Ha would consume serotonine, but in a regulated fashion, and a COP-Ha would consume Serotonine in an unregulated (immidiate) fashion.

      AOP-Ha would be prone to consuming endorphines in an unregulated, immidiate manner, causing free-flow euphoria, where an AOP-La would be prone to producing endorphines for the group, making them provide the group with feelings of pain-release, making others feel 'healed' from both physical and personal pain. The manner in which AOP-La produce endorphines is through rehearsing and constant pondering about traumas and problems, causing feelings of hurt, and building endorphines by processing through these feelings. For an AOP-Ha, the consumption of endorphines works through searching to experience pain and help people through traumas and problems, dealing with problems and being able to "help others" through problems.
    • Published: 07-30-2014 03:43 am
    • Salience plays a role with dopamine. I think that daydreaming / conscious memory-consolidation is a state of very low dopamine. Processing having moderate level of dopamine and Execution having high level.

      Differences in salience type can be about how fast a person goes into task-positive state and also how fast one switches between Execution and Processing. That would make sense with all I have read so far.

      ADHD being treated with dopamine increasing medication which:
      1. Makes them enter a task-positive state faster in response to salient stimuli (ADHD people having issue with being disconnected when daydreaming)
      2. Makes them be able to sustain goal-directed attention over longer period of time (ADHD people having issue with forgetting about goal when presented with salient stimuli)

      Schizoprehnics being treated with dopamine-decreasing medication which:
      1. Makes them open to stimuli outside of their goal, be less goal-directed (Schizophrenics often having illusional goals which are not related to reality)

      I want the theory to be based on evidence, I'm starting to think that Helen Fischers theory might be more speculative than scientific. Anyway we can build our socio-types based on evidence anyway. The socio-types makes sense in relation to the cognitive neuroscientific types.

    • Published: 07-30-2014 05:24 am
      Updated: 07-30-2014 05:43 am
    • No, I see where you're coming from in that, but you need to keep the levels apart:

      Think of it like this: How do we study OE? By studying in a compartmentalized manner, finding out how we are mid speech, or mid listening, or during sentences.

      How do we study someone with AOE-CDP, outside of an isolated environment? By getting them to consider 1. All four individual functions in their processing and execution. Even that's enough to confirm the existance of the four types. If we share the same functions, we share a similar class of behavior. 2. By looking at them holistically, how they are in an environment, switching back and forth between execution and processing, listening and talking, daydreaming and experiencing their surroundings, studying their holistic behavior laid out as one.

      In 2. we find out that people use all of their four functions all the time. That tells us something. We don't go out with AE purely, ignoring all CP. We repeatedly switch back and forth between the two.

      Now, what does dopamine tell us in that? How does Dopamine affect someone with AOE-CDP? Well, judging from what we've read so far, it's bound to affect high saliency types more than low saliency types, so an AOE-CDP would have to use OE and CP to experience the effects of dopamine. This doesn't disprove the existance of sociotypes, it just tells us something about how the sociotypes work: i.e, right now it seems that sociotypes are more pronounced during extroversion, and that the individual functions we pride ourselves on knowing, are mostly visible during introverted reflection on isolated experiences, such as when during speech we experience the most 'emotion'.

      I think an extrovert will struggle to capture the effects of our studies, and they will struggle with answering our tests on determinism, execution, etc, because they don't think on such a small scale. Equally, an introvert with low saliency will struggle to see the existance of the sociotypers because they'll generally reflect on specific moments where they found themselves using just one particular function.

      Sociotypes may be the key most important part of this study, as most people will never choose jobs depending on a compartmentalized experience of emotion mid speech - no job would ever ask you "Do you experience emotions mid articulation?". The extroverted world sees little value in these studies, even if it offers alot of help and inspiration to the world of psychology. So what I want to do, is the same as what Isabella Briggs did to Carl Jung: Stereotype, and popularize building on the theory we've gathered so far, and then sell based on that. Some of that will be and require speculation, based on empirical observation of people examining the functions we've studied so thoroughly. If you want to make this science more benficial to the outer populace, you'll have to risk losing some of the purity that is established in our current theory. The trade you get in return is a much wider range of interpretability, a higher usefulness, a way to relate and improve the social sciences of today. One way of solving this is, pulling out all social theory from the current document, and continuing on with the other level as an isolated document, building on this theory. What do you think is the best step forward?
    • Published: 07-30-2014 05:28 am
    • Some more thoughts:

      It is possible that Deterministic experience neutralize serotonine levels. This would imply D types are driven by balanced serotonine. O types would be driven by high serotonine (indicating a state of emotional / affective safety). This would be inline with cognitive psychology and psychodynamic therapy where rationalization is used to stabilize emotions.

      So in this perspective AOE are driven by high dopamine and high serotonine.
    • ErikThor likes this post.
    • Published: 07-30-2014 05:38 am
    • I am convinced it's possible to link the neurochemicals with the cognitive types and also with the sociotypes. We just need to relax and be patient (low salience goal anticipation).

      I agree about your opinion about how different people find the work useful.
    • ErikThor likes this post.
    • Published: 07-30-2014 05:47 am
    • Yes, sorry if I seem impatient, it's just how I flow with work, I'm very open to tinkering over and questioning this stuff, I'm looking for other explanations and challenging my own assumptions, even if it seems I'm pushing a bit too fast at times, I can happily revise and delete these descriptions, starting over to fit the theory and science we come across. Looking over the AOE-La collages, and AOE-La scientists and politicians, most are accused of rushing too quickly to a conclusion, but looking over them at a long time, I notice most are quick to revise and change their theory around as they go, so don't worry about that. :)
    • Christian likes this post.
    • Published: 07-30-2014 08:00 am
    • It's though for me too to drop a goal and go back to revising it and analyzing stimuli. I think what happens when Executors drop a goal is a drop of dopamine and this is not natural state, causing distress probably drop of serotonine. Let's call that a 'dopamine rebound effect'.

      Types with high salience will probably have higher drops of dopamine when dropping a goal because there was more excitement, enthusiasm and assertiveness involved in the goal. Types with low-salience will be experience less of a dopamine rebound effect but at the same time be less excited, enthusiastic and assertive with goals in general.

      Compare swedish celebrity 'Leif GW Persson' which has low-salience (I think) with 'Paolo Roberto' which has high-salience (I think), who of them has most trouble with changing their goal? Paolo I think.
    • Published: 07-31-2014 03:17 pm
      Updated: 07-31-2014 03:29 pm
    • Figured out why these neurochemicals have no affect on the sociotypes (even if different sociotypes may experience the chemicals differently). We have all the chemicals in our setup, affecting us in different ways. A sociotype is just the combined value of all our neurobiology and our neurochemical components. So a sociotype still has to deal with different levels of all four.

      What I'm thinking right now is that:
      Concrete association is related to oxytocin
      Intuitive association is related to dopamine
      Thinking Encoding is related to endorphines
      and Feeling encoding is related to serotonine.

      Just an early hyphothesis. Been sick these last two days but hope to be more on speed tomorrow. :)
    • Christian likes this post.
    • Published: 07-31-2014 03:27 pm
    • High-saliency users primarily have problems realising and paying attention to their own dreams and desires, forgetting about what they want to focus on what they assume they want. Times of low saliency are necessary if you want to change your path in a bigger way or if you want to re:evaluate your life.
    • Published: 07-31-2014 03:42 pm
    • The socio-types are good, easy to identify in society. I don't think the socio-types require neurochemical evidence to be justified. I think we tone down neurochemical correlations with socio-types until there is evidence for that correlation.

      It seems there are individual differences in the dopamine system that influences personality a lot. My guess is that differences in dopamine and serotonin creates personality differences.

      Executors and Directors are more goal-directed than Negotiators and Builders and should in general have higher dopamine. Explorers probably other types of dopamine and serotonin than Directors and vice versa for Negotiators vs Builders.
    • Published: 07-31-2014 04:06 pm
    • The trait novelty seeking seems to be similar to the sociotype of Explorer and is linked to specific types of dopamine.

      Since dopamine regulates the cognitive networks it's plausible that different cognitive-types have different dopamine types. Differences in types of serotonin probably influences personality too.

      There are evidence for genetic inherited differences in the dopamine and serotonin system. Hope you get well :)
    • Published: 07-31-2014 06:19 pm
    • I think your initial correlation with dopamine and Executors might be correct. Found this interesting work:

      Affective-experience being driven by the dopamine reward system. It's not the same as high dopamine-level in the prefrontal cortex though or neccesary having high dopamine. The organic encoding is very likely related to the dopamine reward system.
    • Published: 08-01-2014 04:14 am
      Updated: 08-01-2014 04:40 am
    • So, another possibility would be that executiveness is a result of dopamine, and that high dopamine-type would be strong with AOE and weak with CDP. So, as an INFJ, I relate Ti to anti-oxytocin (during Ti-surges I'm the least trusting of others, the most confrontative.) and Se to endorphines, or anti-dopamine, basically, I'm the least motivated overall but I'm constantly sweeping around the environment, constantly taking in impact, moving and remaining in motion, trying to psych myself up through sheer 'action'. During Fe-surges I'm the most trusting of others, and if my trust drops for some reason, that snaps me out of both Fe and Se, pulling more inwards. During Ni-Ti surges, I'm experiencing the most of my emotions, ranging from satisfaction, thoughtfulness, pensiveness.

      An AOE-CDP with high salience would experience alot of oxytocin.

      An AOE-CDP with low salience would experience alot of serotonine.

      An AOE-CDP with high processing would experience alot of endorphines. It's for me, CDP-heavy state, so I use DP to *push myself* through 'ok let's go, cmon, just a bit further' and CP to gain energy and to seek thrill and energy. I'm generally using CDP to seek novelty. The range never changes my sociotype.

      Just going off how I associate my functions here. If this theory would be true, that would imply neurochemicals aren't a part of our cognitive understanding, but that they regulate which processes/modes we are in.

      Nice digging finding that theory by the way, I'm looking over it but I haven't landed anywhere yet.
    • Christian likes this post.
    • Published: 08-05-2014 05:43 am
      Updated: 08-05-2014 06:18 am
    • Got some new thoughts:

      Types with DE express themselves primarily as Directors or Builders. Both of these roles include a explicit verbalization of either reality (Builder) or agenda (Director).

      Directors explicitly define the agenda and milestones towards the agenda that are inferred from the definition of the agenda. Increase of dopamine in self and others (anticipation / motivation of staying true to the agenda). Increase of serotonin in self and others (being safe, following structure and choosing a secure path).

      Builders explicitly define the reality. Knowing the reality in explicit terms makes reality less chaotic and more secure (increase serotonin). Not overly confident on direction which decreases dopamine.

      Types with OE express themselves primarily as Explorers or Negotiators. Both of these roles include a implicit expressions of either agenda (Explorer) or reailty (Negotiators).

      Explorers implictly define the agenda. Defining believe-systems / non-verbal structures which can be used to create meaning / harmony / social-structure (Oxytocin). Increase of dopamine in self and others (anticipation / motivation of staying true to the agenda).

      Negotiators use diplomacy between verbal and non-verbal groups to define reality in non-verbal terms. Defining believe-systems / non-verbal structures which can be used to create maning / harmony / social-structure (Oxytocin). Not overly confident on direction which decreases dopamine.
    • Published: 12-25-2014 10:11 am
    • I have some thoughts to this I will return to once the next self-assessment test is released. :)
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